"Anybody who votes against RFK Jr., given that he might be the only one who can save us from our food supply and bad pharma, I'm taking this really personally!"
Thank you Aussie17. I heard on news in Oz yesterday the former U.S. embassy rep to Oz, Caroline Kennedy ( who is cousin to R F K jr,) badmouthing him. They must be really scared of him and what he will do. Shows how a man of integrity threatens the corrupt. May God help RFKJr. His Children's Health Defense organization was a major reason I felt not so alone in the great scamdemic.
Renee Marie: I understand your position, I dropped party affiliation when Pence sold out America on Jan 6, 2021. But I will always vote, even if it's just one more vote the grifters have to steal/replace. It is a corrupt situation, & I pray for hard hearts to be drawn by God to do what is right. I may not see it always, but God is at work in His time.
I respect that Anna Marie! I know how dirty the voting is in California, and I do not want to be a part of the illegitimate system any longer. It’s also a one party state, although I do think it is now red state.
"Then give back to Caesar what belongs to him, and give back to God what belongs to Him” (Mark 12:17).
There is only One Power from above. All other powers are delegated from God, BOTH to the just and unjust. This is by design to create a test (Entire Book of Job)
The test is "Obey the law but do not cross the LINE that I have drawn".
The paradox for everyone is "Where is the line?"
But through this paradox, God cleans us up by reason of use.
Hebrews 5:14
"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
I'm not just trying to be pointlessly argumentative here, but your response just makes this, and the more specific example I responded to elsewhere, far less unambiguous than Renee and you implied. Referring to Mark and Job instead of addressing Romans directly is just turning away from the fullness of God's word instead of trying to explain your statements. I know that you're acknowledging some ambiguity and personal responsibility here (which I agree with), but I'm trying to get to specific, seemingly unambiguous statements regarding authority and avenging wrong-doing.
A clearer example is your reply to SteelJ who asked: "We should seek no consequences for those who do evil?"
Your response implicated that only God should seek consequences. That misses the nuance that's required to align seemingly contradictory quotes from the Bible. Failure to explain these sorts of conundrums can cause the cognitive dissonance that can turn people away, believers and non-believers alike. An example of what I'm looking for can be found in something that R.C. Sproul wrote that briefly touches on justice, vindication, and revenge. I'll share the link below.
For those who aren't familiar with the passages, here are some of the verses I'm trying to address. They speak to Renee's post (authority) and to your responses (authority/vengeance/judgment):
"Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
As I read it, the authority referenced here is the authority of rulers, and the judgment that we'll suffer as a result of our rebellion is from God. Taking each statement from the Bible at its word without context can lead to the conclusion that you were wrong to rebel against the vaccine and lockdown injustices, as they were dictated by the authority that was instituted by God. We know (believe?) this is not the case, but why? I have my thoughts.
"For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good."
Again: take the vaccine. It's for your good. Also: should James have submitted to King Herod Agrippa I's authority? Was Herod God's servant for James' good and his punishment just, or what is martyrdom?
"But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."
Rulers are God's servants for our good, and they bear the sword and bring punishment. They are God's "agents of wrath". As I said elsewhere, God AND man bring consequences, and God has established these authorities in part to execute them. But then, should James have submitted to King Herod Agrippa I's authority rather than be killed by Herod's sword? Herod was an authority. Was he God's servant for James' good who punished James justly, or was it martyrdom for Jesus?
"This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
People like to focus on this "render unto Caesar" bit and ignore the "give respect and honor" part. Should we honor those who locked us down and mandated vaccines?
I think where you and a lot of people are coming from when you leave all vengeance to God comes partly from Romans 12:19:
“Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay’ says the Lord.”
How does this square with the Romans directive to submit to God-given authorities and courts, which includes their pursuit of human wrath, punishment, and justice? I think it squares by discerning the differences between Justice, Vindication, & Vengeance:
My Senators are Wyden & Merkley, calling or writing them is fruitless! I've tried before. I have no representation in Congress, nor does most of my state of Oregon which is overrun by Portland & Eugene. We have career leftists who care nothing about what is right. Praying for RFK Jr to be confirmed.
Yes, you are very correct in that it is an issue to the world. Many countries follow the guidance of US FDA and US CDC totally unaware of their decades-long corruption. The US is at present the only country that can set an example.
I fully support the prospect of RFK Jr as Secretary of HHS, even though he's a Democrat.
However, it's deeply offensive to see these unusually wealthy Democrats resorting to personal threats against U.S. Senators to achieve their desired outcome. It's the attitude that brought us covid jab mandates and George Floyd protests.
I'd like to hear RFK Jr come out and disavow this kind of behavior from his former running mate Shanahan and from Adams, much as I'd like to see an unqualified stooge like Warnock slink away from the national stage.
(I haven't forgotten Scott Adams' criticism of those who "knew better" than to take a covid jab.)
Nah, I'm with Nicole on this one. The big players don't mind doing it behind closed doors, with envelopes of cash, she's just being open about it and stating she will mobilize every opponent against them.
Shanahan did all she could to get two democrat senators cheated into office in Georgia. And now she's concerned they'll vote against RFK Jr? Give me a break. In case she never got the message, elections have consequences. She's clueless.
Thank you Aussie17. I heard on news in Oz yesterday the former U.S. embassy rep to Oz, Caroline Kennedy ( who is cousin to R F K jr,) badmouthing him. They must be really scared of him and what he will do. Shows how a man of integrity threatens the corrupt. May God help RFKJr. His Children's Health Defense organization was a major reason I felt not so alone in the great scamdemic.
Not just routine badmouthing, it was vile. I recommend finding it and watching.
Couldn't have anything to do with her over $7 Billion in pharma!
They r frightened ..sure ... but it’s the realisation that the ‘ golden period of deceit is done ... over -
The lobbyist s to get him over the line will be too strong, I hope !
Les Kraft , is Les Catterwell, & Les Katt. - Adelaide-: AUSTRALIA
Visualization does work. I am breathing deeply. All the best to us all.
NEWS FLASH: They’re all stupid and bought.
I left all parties, and I will never vote again.
Be responsible for yourself and stop putting faith in man, but instead, God/Creator.
Renee Marie: I understand your position, I dropped party affiliation when Pence sold out America on Jan 6, 2021. But I will always vote, even if it's just one more vote the grifters have to steal/replace. It is a corrupt situation, & I pray for hard hearts to be drawn by God to do what is right. I may not see it always, but God is at work in His time.
I respect that Anna Marie! I know how dirty the voting is in California, and I do not want to be a part of the illegitimate system any longer. It’s also a one party state, although I do think it is now red state.
The state government is captured!
Would you or Aussie17 please explain Romans 13:1-7 then?
OK this is how I understand it.
"Then give back to Caesar what belongs to him, and give back to God what belongs to Him” (Mark 12:17).
There is only One Power from above. All other powers are delegated from God, BOTH to the just and unjust. This is by design to create a test (Entire Book of Job)
The test is "Obey the law but do not cross the LINE that I have drawn".
The paradox for everyone is "Where is the line?"
But through this paradox, God cleans us up by reason of use.
Hebrews 5:14
"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
I'm not just trying to be pointlessly argumentative here, but your response just makes this, and the more specific example I responded to elsewhere, far less unambiguous than Renee and you implied. Referring to Mark and Job instead of addressing Romans directly is just turning away from the fullness of God's word instead of trying to explain your statements. I know that you're acknowledging some ambiguity and personal responsibility here (which I agree with), but I'm trying to get to specific, seemingly unambiguous statements regarding authority and avenging wrong-doing.
A clearer example is your reply to SteelJ who asked: "We should seek no consequences for those who do evil?"
Your response implicated that only God should seek consequences. That misses the nuance that's required to align seemingly contradictory quotes from the Bible. Failure to explain these sorts of conundrums can cause the cognitive dissonance that can turn people away, believers and non-believers alike. An example of what I'm looking for can be found in something that R.C. Sproul wrote that briefly touches on justice, vindication, and revenge. I'll share the link below.
For those who aren't familiar with the passages, here are some of the verses I'm trying to address. They speak to Renee's post (authority) and to your responses (authority/vengeance/judgment):
"Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
As I read it, the authority referenced here is the authority of rulers, and the judgment that we'll suffer as a result of our rebellion is from God. Taking each statement from the Bible at its word without context can lead to the conclusion that you were wrong to rebel against the vaccine and lockdown injustices, as they were dictated by the authority that was instituted by God. We know (believe?) this is not the case, but why? I have my thoughts.
"For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good."
Again: take the vaccine. It's for your good. Also: should James have submitted to King Herod Agrippa I's authority? Was Herod God's servant for James' good and his punishment just, or what is martyrdom?
"But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."
Rulers are God's servants for our good, and they bear the sword and bring punishment. They are God's "agents of wrath". As I said elsewhere, God AND man bring consequences, and God has established these authorities in part to execute them. But then, should James have submitted to King Herod Agrippa I's authority rather than be killed by Herod's sword? Herod was an authority. Was he God's servant for James' good who punished James justly, or was it martyrdom for Jesus?
"This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
People like to focus on this "render unto Caesar" bit and ignore the "give respect and honor" part. Should we honor those who locked us down and mandated vaccines?
I think where you and a lot of people are coming from when you leave all vengeance to God comes partly from Romans 12:19:
“Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay’ says the Lord.”
How does this square with the Romans directive to submit to God-given authorities and courts, which includes their pursuit of human wrath, punishment, and justice? I think it squares by discerning the differences between Justice, Vindication, & Vengeance:
https://www.aspenridgechurch.org/blog/2014-5-14-justice-vindication-vengeance/
My Senators are Wyden & Merkley, calling or writing them is fruitless! I've tried before. I have no representation in Congress, nor does most of my state of Oregon which is overrun by Portland & Eugene. We have career leftists who care nothing about what is right. Praying for RFK Jr to be confirmed.
Educate your people - LOUDLY
Merkley Jeff (D-OR) In office Oregon $128,904.00 from Pharma
Wyden Ron (D-OR) In office Oregon $1,207,873.00 from Pharma
Just for info -
Warren Elizabeth (D-MA) In office Massachusetts $1,224,145.00 from Pharma
McConnell Mitch (R-KY) In office Kentucky $2,027,732.00 from Pharma
Sanders Bernie (I-VT) In office Vermont $1,953,613.00 from Pharma
Warnock Raphael (D-GA) In office Georgia $1,763,425.00 from Pharma
Murray Patty (D-WA) In office Washington $1,616,081.00 from Pharma
Burr Richard (R-NC) North Carolina $1,642,876.00 from Pharma
Schumer Charles E (D-NY) In office New York $1,557,928.00 from Pharma
I know what you mean though. AZ is ate up with the idiots as well. And once they are in, they block anyone NOT like them.
Kelly Mark (D-AZ) In office Arizona $1,041,405.00 from Pharma
Thank you. No surprise there! Wyden is one 8-10yrs ago, pushing taxation of $ in capital gains they haven’t received or accessed. Greed gone to seed.
Call them anyway, do it for Kennedy.
Can't hurt and may help. "A single grain of rice can tip the scale." (said by the emperor in Mulan)
We should have removed these pp years ago. RFK jr. has lit a fire under us now!
This is a WORLD HEALTH ISSUE .. of .. GIGANTIC PROPORTIONS
THE US MUST GET RFK TO WHERE YOUR VOTING PUBLIC REPUBLICANS WANTED WHEN THEY VOTED TRUMP
Les Kraft, is Les Catterwell, Les Katt
Australia- GOP Member
Yep, I am with them both.
Not only is Kennedy essential to Trump's administration, without him Trump may well not have won.
Meaning Trump could lose the midterms without Kennedy at the helm.
Not likely loose the mids ,,, but there’s a myriad of reasons why RFK ,, must be there ...
Holding our breath in AUSTRALIA too on this , With our fed election soon ... prior July 25’
This is an issue to the world
Yes, you are very correct in that it is an issue to the world. Many countries follow the guidance of US FDA and US CDC totally unaware of their decades-long corruption. The US is at present the only country that can set an example.
I fully support the prospect of RFK Jr as Secretary of HHS, even though he's a Democrat.
However, it's deeply offensive to see these unusually wealthy Democrats resorting to personal threats against U.S. Senators to achieve their desired outcome. It's the attitude that brought us covid jab mandates and George Floyd protests.
I'd like to hear RFK Jr come out and disavow this kind of behavior from his former running mate Shanahan and from Adams, much as I'd like to see an unqualified stooge like Warnock slink away from the national stage.
(I haven't forgotten Scott Adams' criticism of those who "knew better" than to take a covid jab.)
Nah, I'm with Nicole on this one. The big players don't mind doing it behind closed doors, with envelopes of cash, she's just being open about it and stating she will mobilize every opponent against them.
If you haven't looked up how much cash big Harma gives to our "representatives", take a moment to look. https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=H04
Oh, I'm aware, SH. But thanks for your reply!
https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/08/resources/faq-resources/one-nation-under-blackmail-info/. ONE NATION UNDER BLACKMAIL
Shanahan did all she could to get two democrat senators cheated into office in Georgia. And now she's concerned they'll vote against RFK Jr? Give me a break. In case she never got the message, elections have consequences. She's clueless.
🤞🤞🤞 🔥🔥🔥